2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(KJV)
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It has been a bit alarming for me to be seeing what is happening all around me. I see people who call themselves "Christian" falling away from the faith, accepting their delusions for the truth, thinking that they in their own understanding could be wiser than God, more loving than God, and thinking themselves very capable of discerning the truth about God with their fleshy wisdom. I see them saying that what they see in the Bible are a bunch of contradictions which we are better off not knowing about, that "ignorance is bliss", and that the God of the Bible while claiming to be loving is in actuality very hateful and nothing at all like what is spoken about in 1 Corinthians 13. Wow, what arrogance. Talk about the pot saying to the potter: "It is all YOUR fault! You have designed everything this way! You have designed ME to fail!!!" Shaking the fist at God, although they probably do not realize this is what they are doing and saying. I have to remind myself of the wisdom spoken in the above passage, that I be not soon shaken in my mind because of what I see (or think that I see), and know that in the Lord I am protected from the strong delusion that is right now knocking people over left and right. People are setting themselves up as wise, instead of remembering that we are not anything without the life-spring that comes to us from above. We are dirt, and will return to dirt when we die.
The spark of life, that which animates us, is given by God, and can easily be manipulated and distorted by satan, and we are marred already by the effect of the original fall of Adam and Eve. Eve was much closer to the Lord than any of us are, much more innocent and had a stronger intimate relationship. She was in a daily communion with our Heavenly Father much moreso than any of us presently understand. I think we presently slip in and out of that kind of communion with the Holy Spirit, but our flesh takes over to try to dominate us. And even though Eve was so intimately communing with God, she fell for the devil's tricks.
But getting back to the topic of the falling away, does this current falling away signify that soon we will see "the man of sin"? I personally believe we will, and perhaps we already do see him but just haven't come to the full realization yet that he is "him". When this man of sin forces everyone to take the mark of the beast, that is (I believe) the unmistakable sign that it is "him"... and that time may soon come.
Sometimes I do find these things alarming, and I do get "shaken in my mind", but then I remember that just by the fact that all these things are foretold about shows us that God is fully aware and in control of it. This fact strengthens me to understand that the Lord is capable to also see to it that even I can die a martyr's death, and continue to be strong to the end...but this is only possible by His strengthening. In my flesh I would not be able to do such a thing. I would "cry uncle" the moment the pain would get too uncomfortable. Just as the apostles asked "Who then is able to be saved" the answer comes from Jesus:
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 19:26 (ESV)
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
2Th 2:7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
2Th 2:9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(KJV)
***************************
It has been a bit alarming for me to be seeing what is happening all around me. I see people who call themselves "Christian" falling away from the faith, accepting their delusions for the truth, thinking that they in their own understanding could be wiser than God, more loving than God, and thinking themselves very capable of discerning the truth about God with their fleshy wisdom. I see them saying that what they see in the Bible are a bunch of contradictions which we are better off not knowing about, that "ignorance is bliss", and that the God of the Bible while claiming to be loving is in actuality very hateful and nothing at all like what is spoken about in 1 Corinthians 13. Wow, what arrogance. Talk about the pot saying to the potter: "It is all YOUR fault! You have designed everything this way! You have designed ME to fail!!!" Shaking the fist at God, although they probably do not realize this is what they are doing and saying. I have to remind myself of the wisdom spoken in the above passage, that I be not soon shaken in my mind because of what I see (or think that I see), and know that in the Lord I am protected from the strong delusion that is right now knocking people over left and right. People are setting themselves up as wise, instead of remembering that we are not anything without the life-spring that comes to us from above. We are dirt, and will return to dirt when we die.
The spark of life, that which animates us, is given by God, and can easily be manipulated and distorted by satan, and we are marred already by the effect of the original fall of Adam and Eve. Eve was much closer to the Lord than any of us are, much more innocent and had a stronger intimate relationship. She was in a daily communion with our Heavenly Father much moreso than any of us presently understand. I think we presently slip in and out of that kind of communion with the Holy Spirit, but our flesh takes over to try to dominate us. And even though Eve was so intimately communing with God, she fell for the devil's tricks.
But getting back to the topic of the falling away, does this current falling away signify that soon we will see "the man of sin"? I personally believe we will, and perhaps we already do see him but just haven't come to the full realization yet that he is "him". When this man of sin forces everyone to take the mark of the beast, that is (I believe) the unmistakable sign that it is "him"... and that time may soon come.
Sometimes I do find these things alarming, and I do get "shaken in my mind", but then I remember that just by the fact that all these things are foretold about shows us that God is fully aware and in control of it. This fact strengthens me to understand that the Lord is capable to also see to it that even I can die a martyr's death, and continue to be strong to the end...but this is only possible by His strengthening. In my flesh I would not be able to do such a thing. I would "cry uncle" the moment the pain would get too uncomfortable. Just as the apostles asked "Who then is able to be saved" the answer comes from Jesus:
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
Matthew 19:26 (ESV)
Hi Susan,
ReplyDeleteI hope you don't mind me commenting, but if you do I will not again.
What do you make of the unloving things that the Bible records God ordering?
I just wonder how you are able to reconcile it.
Hi Alice,
DeleteI absolutely don't mind you commenting, I love you, though you probably don't realize it, I had to remove myself from following you only because, like I said, I didn't want to give you the wrong impression by following you, but know that I am concerned about you and love you with all of my heart.
The problems that many perceive as "unloving" are not that at all. When the Jews were ordered to kill other nations it was after God had given that nation every warning (like Jonah with Ninevah) and when the corruption had reached maximum overload, they had to be removed.
When terrible things happened to Job because the devil wanted to accuse him before God, God allowed it, within limits. Then after he finished his period of testing, God gave him everything back double of what he had before, except his children which were the same number. I have heard it preached, and I agree, that this is because God was showing Job that he had his double in children, but the first set are in heaven.
God reminds me (especially while I'm grumbling about this or that) how longsuffering He is. Grumbling is a sin. I do it continually...about this ache, or that problem at work, or this person who is a real pain...all the while, God isn't striking me dead for my sinful grumbling!
Why did God allow sin? Why did He create a devil at all? I've heard it theorized that it is because He didn't want robots, and I think that has much truth to it. He didn't create robots, and Jews are about as "unrobotic" as they come, even with all their religion and traditions, they are not robotic about it at all (except for maybe the chief priests, Pharisees and Sadducees, Jesus called them hypocrites, which means "actors"), where I do notice robotic behavior (actors wearing masks and behaving in ways that are unnatural) in many Gentiles.
What we determine to be unloving often is what our flesh thinks to be so, and if we judge God to be unloving it is when we most display not having the mind of Christ, because His ways are not our ways.
Much better to remember that we are the clay, He is the Potter, and all that He does, is because of His great love for the elect. We all deserve hell, and yet, all are not going to where we deserve, and that is VERY loving indeed.
Thank you for your thoughtful response, Susan. And I do love you too. I guess I just can't see it this way anymore. Never in a million years would I have thought that I would be where I am now. Really. It has been a dreadfully painful process.
DeleteGod's saving us from the problem that He created to begin with is really kind of twisted as I look on it from the outside. I don't mean to be offensive, that it just how I see it. That is not love.
I know I'm just a human being, but if God so wants a relationship with us, He's going to have to be able to calm our fears and answer our biggest questions. We don't all deserve Hell, we didn't ask to be here.
It makes us pawns in this giant game that God is playing for His glory and that goes against 1 Cor 13's definition of love.
(It is not self seeking)
That is what flipped a switch in me that I fear cannot be switched, something is not adding up.
The way to the tree of life is guarded by a flaming two edged sword that cuts us wide open to the eyes of God (Hebrews 4:12-14), and if we are found in Him by the blood of the Lamb, He only winnows away all the dross, the things that cannot make it to heaven, and if we are not covered by the blood of the Lamb, it cuts us assunder, and it all is cast into the rubbish heap. If you are His, it will cut away all that does not belong, all that is opposed to Him, but if you love yourself, this world, and the things of this world more than Him, you will be rejected, not because He is unloving, but He is holy, and cannot admit unholy and profane things into His presence. He has the way paved with the price He paid, so it is under His terms, not ours, if it is not good enough for you (as it is also rejected by many in this world--- His follow Him, not the world, not the people of this world, not the "pleasures" and "customs" and "traditions" of this world) and if these things are even a smidgen more important than what He has done for you, you are not saved, but lost, and headed for hell. Whether you believe it or not, whether you think it unloving, doesn't matter and does not change the truth of it. God's love is a holy love, not a perverse and fallen and selfish love like that of our flesh.
DeleteI have prayed for you, but God's will is always what will be done in the end, because His will is higher than mine
But repentance is still available, if you, like a beggar at Jesus feet say "I want to reject this world and love you more, but am unable Lord, heal me and help me, wash me with your blood, sanctify me and make me holy, replace what I have done with Jesus' perfect life as a substitution for my guilt", then His eyes will only see Jesus, and the price He paid for you as you pass through the flaming sword of truth that guards the way to the tree of life, and this world and your love for all that is evil will be removed, pruned away, and you will truly walk in His presence covered with His righteousness and blessing.
DeleteThis isn't about me loving the world, Susan or about me not ever believing in the first place or about me wanting to sin.
DeleteI am searching for the truth.l have searched Christianity out thoroughly and I don't think it is true. It is as simple as that.
I did and have given up lots of things for the gospel and for Jesus. I have never held anything back. But when it came down to me trusting that the bible was without fault, I just couldn't lie to myself anymore.
I don't think you are unloving, either. It doesn't matter anymore. I don't see anyone as "saved" or "lost" anymore...just people.
God is love or he is not and sending people to hell is not loving. period.
Also, I don't want to come across as being "mad" at God, I'm not. I'm mad at the situation and the outright lies and delusions I have been exposed to in all of this.
DeleteAlice, if you are wanting it on "your terms" which you are, although you do not see it, you are mad at God, you are angry that He isn't complying with your will, with your way of wanting it to be. If God were truly "fair" we all would go to hell, because none of us is perfect enough for heaven. That you fail to want that to be the case, shows that you are still in rebellion against God.
DeleteThe "god of this world" is the devil, so if you reject Christianity, what "god" is it that you serve?
I don't serve any god at the moment.
ReplyDeleteIf you would really step back and think about this hell thing without the Christian filter, which I now you probably have, you can't defend it. It's just wrong.
also in violation of love 1Cor 13
(keeps no record of wrongs)
I'll be hosting a family get together today, so I won't be on the computer till later.
Again, when "judging with the flesh" what you say "seems right"...however, you are leaving out key portions, to your own destruction. As I said, it is on God's terms, not ours, He is holy, we are not, if we are outside of His will for us, we have our record of wrongs with us forever. If He washes it away, it is washed completely. Yes it is just that black and white, like it or not. Yes there is a heaven and a hell, like it or not. The truth remains what it is regardless of how we want to see it.
DeleteTake care, Alice...I hope that in your searching you do eventually find "the Truth" because He alone can set you free, and if you are set free you will be free indeed.
Our hearts are desperately wicked and desire to hang on to any shred of possibility that there might be some good inside of ourselves...outside of Jesus, it just isn't so. He must wash our sins away, or we take them all with us to hell. That is a gift, no one earns this or deserves this, that is what makes it "grace".