The general consensus in Evangelical Christianity today seems to believe that Israel can do no wrong, that we are to lock arms with Israel in a spirit of unity and ecumenicalism. Paul told us they are cut off, but not to glory in ourselves in feelings of superiority about it. Israel has been cut off for a reason.
The Apostle Paul stated in Romans 11 that we are not to be "wise in our own eyes" and "arrogant" about this fact, that Israel is disobedient at the present time just as we were disobedient, so that God can show mercy to all (Romans 11:31-32) and that the blindness of Israel is only until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in (Romans 11:25).
At the present time Israel is still "antichrist" and until the Lord truly opens their eyes, they are against Jesus. That isn't to say that we shouldn't pray for Israel, and evangelize Israel. Paul pleaded with Israelites and Stephen lost his life trying to evangelize Israel. We cannot lock arms with Israel in a "spirit of unity" because Israel (that is to say SECULAR Israel and Israel that is still steeped in Judaism) is still in apostasy. Many Christians I've spoken with think that there is no need to evangelize the Jews because they "get it" through their genetics. There are blessings that Israel has been promised through Abraham (which we also share in) and through Jacob (which is specific to Israel, but it is bound to the present mortal time on earth), however, in order to be saved eternally, it is through being changed by the Holy Spirit, just as we had to be. To not tell Israel about that fact, and to pretend they can "get it" some other way through genetics, isn't honest. But we are not to tell them in such a way that we make ourselves better than they are. We are not any better than they are. We need God's mercy, just as they need God's mercy.
Let us pray for the peace (true peace in Jesus) of Israel.
This is odd, as I was JUST thinking about you and this issue:)
ReplyDeleteI think you have something here. Although I believe that Israel and the Church are not the same and that Israel will at some point come to faith, secular Israel would be scriputrally speaking, just as lost as everyone else who does not have Jesus.
I came across a teaching that takes a whole different look at the book of Revelation and how very Jewish it is. I haven't made up my mind yet, but am giving it a go. The issue with this post would be that the whole 1948 thing is not necessarily a re-gathering of Israel...just yet.
Hi Ma,
ReplyDeleteI agree that Israel and "the Church" are not the same...although we probably have different ideas as to how that is, lol... the world's views and understanding about "the Church" and God's view of it are different too, I'm very sure of that.
The way I see it, we (the true Gentile church) are wild branches that are grafted into the vine. The vine would be the true remnant, whose life flows from the root, Jesus. The natural branches that are cut off is spiritually blind Israel. There are natural branches that have been reattached...so there is a difference in "natural branches" and "wild branches"...however, God says He sees no difference between saved Jew and Gentile. We can observe a difference between the natural and the wild, but God sees us all as His children just as a perfect parent would not see a difference between natural and adopted sons and daughters and would give them equal love and inheritance.
I agree there, that as Paul writes in Christ there is not Jew or Gentile, free or bond, male or female.
ReplyDeleteWhat our future holds (as the body of Christ) in the millennium is something I am trying to figure out scripturally.
Sigh...so much to study, so little time!
Great and thorough post, touching on essential truths! Blessings!
ReplyDeleteHi Ma,
ReplyDeleteI think I've mentioned before that the millennium is a complete blank for me. Maybe as the time grows closer the Lord will reveal more to us about it in His word. When I read other people's thoughts about it (which is rare if I ever find anything) I do not sense anything ringing true, maybe because the Lord hasn't given it to me to understand for His reasons, which reasons I do not know. What I have sensed is that when the Lord wants me to know something, He gets it done! :) Thanks for the neurological workout, lol.
Hi Petra,
Thanks for your encouragement and for visiting :)
BTW, Ma,
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about the 7 churches in Revelation being a Jewish menorah candlestick?(seven lights)
How do you think that works into the Church/Israel relationship?
Hi Susan, Love the new look:)
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about the 7 churches in Revelation being a Jewish menorah candlestick?(seven lights)
I have NO idea, but that is definitely something to think about!
How do you think that works into the Church/Israel relationship?
It seems so unclear to us because the things that Jesus says to those seven churches doesn't sound very "grace saved through faith" at times. (removing candlesticks and spewing out of His mouth, etc.)
Plus there's the thing about Paul going to the Gentiles and John, Peter and James to the circumcision....John is writing this, so I wonder who is audience is...maybe a very minor point, though.
Also, although the millennium is often thought of as a time of complete peace (although He will rule with a rod of iron), there still will be an uprising at the end and many will fight against Jesus.
PLUS if we are to take the Word at face value, we have to deal with the temple in the book of Ezekiel that speaks of animal sacrifices and priests during Jesus's kingdom on earth. THAT is something I find NOBODY wants to talk about. Fruchtenbaum touched on it somewhat briefly in one of his books, and I liked what he had to say, but wish he would have developed it more.
I don't think any of us have this whole thing figured out and the more I learn and study the more I know that I really don't know anything.
Maybe we are not supposed to understand it now. Much like the children of Israel didn't understand how Messiah could both suffer and rule and reign.
We are saved by grace through faith and THAT not of ourselves!
I think this applies here:
"Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!"
I heard Tony Evans give a sermon on the millenium. Didn't get to hear the whole thing so I can't really give a good solid recommendation, but i was very intrigued and want to check out his website to see if I can find it. You may want to look, too.
ReplyDeleteHi Ma,
ReplyDelete"Love the new look:)"
Thanks, I was looking around for something, didn't see this background before, for some reason...
I don't believe John was talking to Jewish Christians, because the congregations spoken of had both Jews and Gentiles, and this was Jesus talking, not John. John was delivering a message as it was given. I don't think John would later edit it to be only for Jews.
The "spewing out" and "removing your candlestick" I think has to do with how God deals with or removes an entire congregation. It's weird that He would remove an entire segment/sect of Christianity, but allows Mormonism, Buddhism, and other cults to just go on and on.
I haven't looked at Ezekiel much, I read it through once a long time ago, but I didn't understand much of it. I'll have to give it another go. If you can find the Arnold Fruchtenbaum lecture on it that might help...I'll try to find it too.
Hi Jennifer,
Thank you, I will try to find out more and will see if I can find what he has to say about it.
As someone who has actually lived in Israel ...had conversations with many different people there....I have come to the position that I'm not going argue with God about who He decides to Elect. If the current belief-structure of the modern state Israel doesn't meet your expectations of what "Christian" believers should look like...that's more a perception problem on your part.As best as humanly possible to discern....it appears to me the population there is predominantly Elect. Don't forget that Paul himself persecuted and killed Christians WHILE he was Elect....but yet not knowing of Jesus Christ. This population has a God-given right to be there ...unlike the so-called palestinians.Any effort to hinder this right will be met with judgment from God. Recognizing this truth has nothing to do with support of the current government there.But it seems to me that most anti-Israeli sentiment goes hand-in-hand with an anti-God sentiment.
ReplyDeleteHi Tex,
ReplyDeleteI tend to agree with what the Apostle Paul stated about this subject, and what Jesus said about it.
There will be a future time when, according to scripture, things will be rectified, however that time hasn't come yet, and Paul said not everyone who says he's a Jew is a Jew. I can pull up several scriptural references to counter your argument, but suffice it to say "I disagree with you" :)
By the way, I'm not antisemitic.
Oh, and another "by the way" Tex, thanks for your comment. ;-)
ReplyDelete