Conversion

I will get to the topic of Total Depravity, I promise! For now I shall touch on something that leads up to that.

Today's topic continually comes up and it ties together all "tulip" points. That topic is CONVERSION. Jesus said "You must be born again". We cannot do the works that the Lord desires from us unless His Spirit resides in us to be able to do so. Any other "works" no matter how holy seeming, are all for nothing. Sure the Lord can use them if He desires, but for that person's salvation it adds or subtracts nothing...it is what the Lord does, has done, and will do that matters. There are lots of scripture verses that substantiate that; I'll leave it for another time. However it would behoove us to look up study those verses, to do the digging.

It (the topic of conversion) goes back to the "U", "L" and the "I" of the 5 points. http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/dabney/5points.htm however there is something that we can find from delving deeper into the reformers writings that we do not get from a superficial study of the 5 points....the drawing of the Lord (irresistible grace) includes a determined seeking (which of course also comes from the Lord, because we cannot do anything good unless it is from the Lord to do it). His word goes out, those who act on it and receive it do so because the Lord has activated this call in those He calls, causing them to seek Him and not stop in that seeking until He allows us to find Him.

"But (you may ask) aren't there many who seek and yet never find Him?" Only the Lord knows who it is that TRULY seek Him. The proof (for us) is in the pudding, as the saying goes, because those who sincerely seek Him will do so until they find Him. Those who give up or turn away, were never sincere, no matter how much they argue to the contrary. How do I know? It is because of the fact that they stopped and they turned away, that is the proof given to us in scripture (gospel of John ch 6 and 1 John ch 2) and since the Bible says so, I believe God before I believe those who protest their own innocence in the matter.

Isaiah 55:6-7  

Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, 

call ye upon him while he is near:  

Let the wicked forsake his way, 

and the unrighteous man his thoughts: 

and let him return unto the LORD, 

and he will have mercy upon him; 

and to our God, 

 for He will abundantly pardon.(KJV)

Luke 11:9-10

  And I say unto you, 

Ask, and it shall be given you;

 seek, and ye shall find;

 knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

   For every one that asketh receiveth;

 and he that seeketh findeth;

 and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.(KJV)

In these the Arminian or semi-pelagian will flatter himself with the notion that it is his own seeking and perseverance that forces God's hand to move. Nothing of the sort. He is not moved by our manipulation. It is His choice that He answers, His goodness that moves Him, His promise that He honors to answer us, and not our pleadings (which may or may not be sincere).

Then there are those that say: "But God DOESN'T always answer, in fact, more often than not, He does not answer when suffering people cry unto Him" and I would argue that He always does, but not according to our fleshy notions of what an answer is supposed to look like. Jesus had plenty to say about the foolish generation that seeks after a sign, and yet He supplied the sign needed, the sign that meant exactly what He meant about moving mountains and spiritual blessings, the sign which was rejected...but that would be another topic for another time.

There is a passage in the book of Esther...the Jewish people are about to be annihilated because evil Haman wants all Jews murdered. Esther asks Mordecai to tell the people to fast and pray for 3 days. After the 3 days she approaches the king to bring him her request. If he leans his scepter towards her it means he honors her presence, if he doesn't she would face execution. That is the same situation we face if we stand before an almighty and holy God, He has the right to kill us on the spot and we would be powerless to say anything in our own defense. It is God's grace (and often prayers of others who are faithful in Christ) who make way for the Lord to receive us unto Himself. When we see Him we will know it is all because of Him, not anything we did, not our choice, that saved us.

 

Likewise, those that are left outside, eternally without God, seething, ever hateful, ever shaking their fist at God, will know that their choices brought them nothing, and will forever hate the Lord for not choosing them saying that He denied them their rights. We do not have the "rights" that we demand of God. We are beggars before our sovereign. Like Esther, we come before God knowing HE has THE RIGHT to kill us for our imperfections, our inner hidden sins, our pride that we would consider ourselves to be equal or higher than Him. Yet these will go on seething with this idea of their rights having been denied them, and will do so for all eternity, gnashing their teeth, weeping that they didn't get what they feel they deserve.

However, this little blog article won't convince anyone that believes in "their rights" being denied by God. It won't convince those who see the Bible by the "light" of their own darkened understanding....those who have determined (for themselves and do their best to try to convince others) that the Bible doesn't make sense, or contradicts itself...

 

 2Peter 3:16  

As also in all his (Paul's) epistles,

 speaking in them of these things;

 in which are some things hard to be understood, 

which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest (torture, pervert),

 as they do also the other scriptures, 

unto their own destruction. (KJV)

 

I won't convince anyone, but I do hope the Holy Spirit will convict some, and bring them to true repentance in true humility before Him.

 

Can We Lose Our Salvation?

 

 

http://ayay.co.uk/background/art/danish/the-tiger-arrives-at-the-two-martyrs/

Perseverance of the Saints

Perseverance of the Saints is a doctrine which states that the saints (those whom God has saved) will remain in God's hand until they are glorified and brought to abide with him in heaven. Romans 8:28-39 makes it clear that when a person truly has been regenerated by God, he will remain in God's stead. The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.

 http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html

Many believe you can "lose" or "give back" salvation, a sort of cosmic abortion, if you will. Does that even make sense? If God begins something, He completes it (Phil 1:6) so if you "become" unregenerate, you were never His to begin with. (1 John 2:19)

It is possible to torture the text to make it confess all sorts of things... true, I see it all the time. The ones most guilty of such butchery are the ones who are most convinced that they can lose their salvation and that they chose God in order to be saved. God didn't leave such important work in our own hands to mangle, to  manipulate salvation out of Him, and then later toss aside saying "I can decide to do whatever I want because God gave me that choice". My husband says: "If you have the power to choose to be saved, you also have the power to lose it." (see John 10:29) 


" All the angels, and Adam, received from their Creator holy natures; yet our first father and the fallen angels show that they could totally fall away into sin. No one in himself is absolutely incapable of sinning, except the unchangeable God. Converted men, who still have indwelling sin, must certainly be as capable of falling as Adam, who had none. We believe that the saints will certainly stand, because the God who chose them will certainly hold them up." Link

Do we really believe we are better than Adam and Eve and the holy angels of God to keep our own salvation secure? In the gospel of John chapter 6 we see many who followed after Jesus turn away from Him and follow Him no more (John 6:66) after He told them

 John 6:65  And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (KJV)

This is one of the most comforting aspects of the fact that it is God who saves us and God who keeps us saved....so why do so many reject Jesus at His word?

 
 John 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
John 6:64a  But there are some of you who do not believe."(KJV)

ohhhh.....yes, I see.

Read the links for more indepth study:

 http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html
 http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/dabney/5points.htm

A couple of posts ago I stated I would talk about our Total depravity (the "T" in TULIP)....I forgot....so I'll go into that next time :)

Does "All" Really Mean All?

 The last two posts I have been touching on the topic of "Calvinism". If you aren't familiar with this subject, or even if you are, it would be good to read the previous posts in order. The first is an introduction, the second explores one of the areas of debate on this topic:

 http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.ca/2015/02/choices-and-faith.html

http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.ca/2015/02/chosen-by-god.html

The L in the Calvinism TULIP stands for Limited Atonement. This blog post will not cover all of the finer points of both sides of this much passionately debated issue, but I give it an overview with links for your further study. On face value, the term Limited Atonement (or also called Particular Atonement) sounds offensive and heretical. 

What! God's sacrifice for our sins is in no way limited!!! 

True...so let us explore what this sound bite is actually talking about.

 Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all). http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

Sufficient for all, but not efficacious for all...in other words the sacrifice itself is sufficient to save every person ever born on this earth, but it does not do so. It is not efficacious, effective, in everyone's lives. On that point everyone that calls themselves Christian will agree. So why is this such a disagreeable assertion for many?...I personally think that people get stuck on the shortened for TULIP's sake title of LIMITED atonement.

Everyone agrees that not everyone  "gets" saved, or all Christians would also be universalists. Something has to happen. Jesus said: "You must be born again" John 3:3

The idea that one can will himself to be born again was discussed in the last post, so this is a continuation on that idea. The fact that the Lords atonement is  not effective for everyone is accepted by most Christians whether they call themselves Calvinists or not. The problem lies in the fact that those who are not Calvinists accuse Calvinists of saying that God forces some to be saved, and forces others to be not saved by the fact that He determined when He made us whether we would be one of His or not. I had one semipelagian call the God of Calvinists a "rapist god", because He forces some to love Him. The problem is we cannot love Him unless He causes us to, changing our hearts and minds and lives in conformity to His will for us...but we tend to think in human terms so such a thing would be a limitation on our freedom and ability when in actuality it is the opposite: God frees us to be able to love Him (remember...the truth sets us free).

But the Bible tells us in John 3:16 that God so loved THE WORLD, and that all who believe on Him will be saved...yes...

Act 13:47  For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, "'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'"
Act 13:48  And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


Not everyone receives it. Not everyone is *ignited* by the truth of it. Some might be able to fake that for a while and fool a whole bunch of people into thinking they were born of the Spirit...but eventually the truth will bear it out whether they truly were transformed by the choosing of Gods saving Spirit who knows who are His...and who are not chosen.

I have heard many say "But that is not fair!!!!!"

True. Fair would send everyone to hell. Grace saves some that had no desire or ability to be good enough to be eternally with God. We do not want "fair", we desire grace.

Then I have heard from objectors: "When God said ALL He meant ALL...when Jesus said WHOSOEVER He really meant that for ALL"

Here is a link to a short article that goes into this a little further:
http://www.calvinistcorner.com/john316-anyone-can-believe.htm

If that makes you uncomfortable, take it to Jesus, confess your need for His Spirit to transform you by His power. He is not obligated to give you what you ask, but He does keep His promises, and one of His promises to us is that He gives liberally to all who ask of Him (James 1:5). However He does it in a way that we know and ultimately acknowledge the fact that it is His choice, not ours, that saves us out of the destiny we all would have been headed for, hell, which we all deserve (whether we want to think so or not, the truth is we all deserve hell)...and that it is GRACE that keeps some of us from going to what we all deserve.

Next time: Perseverance of the Saints

Choices and Faith

A brief background: 
Arminians (those who argue that we have or lose our salvation by our choice) vs. "Calvinists" (only more recently attributed with this name, more accurately they should be named "Dutch Reform", but at the time of John Calvin they would have simply been called "Protestants" (protesting the Church at Rome) and "Christians".

Pelagians: (at the time of Augustine) did not believe in "original sin"
Semi-Pelagians: believed we are tainted by the "original sin" but not to the point that we are unable to cooperate with God to the saving of our soul.
http://www.gotquestions.org/Pelagianism.html

Today's Christian (professing to be Bible believing) churches have become tainted by the same arguments that plagued the reformers at the time of John Calvin. 

The Arminian argument presented to Synod of Dort:

1. election conditioned on foreseen faith;
2. universal atonement (that Christ died for all men and for every man, so that He merited reconciliation and forgiveness of sins for all through the death of the cross; yet so that no one actually enjoys this forgiveness of sins except the believer);
3. the need for regeneration if man is to be saved (here they seemed to be orthodox enough, but, as it later appeared, this was understood in such a way as seriously to underestimate the depravity of human nature);
4. the resistibility of grace ('but with respect to the mode of this grace, it is not irresistible'); and
5. the uncertainty of the perseverance of believers (in respect of this article the Arminians shortly came openly to deny such final perseverance) 


compared with the "5 points of Calvinism" particularly the points of total depravity, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and perseverance of the saints (also called "once saved always saved", though this term does not give an adequate understanding, it muddies up the water of what perseverance entails) :

Total Depravity (Total Inability)

Total Depravity is probably the most misunderstood tenet of Calvinism. When Calvinists speak of humans as "totally depraved," they are making an extensive, rather than an intensive statement. The effect of the fall upon man is that sin has extended to every part of his personality -- his thinking, his emotions, and his will. Not necessarily that he is intensely sinful, but that sin has extended to his entire being.
The unregenerate (unsaved) man is dead in his sins (Romans 5:12). Without the power of the Holy Spirit, the natural man is blind and deaf to the message of the gospel (Mark 4:11f). This is why Total Depravity has also been called "Total Inability." The man without a knowledge of God will never come to this knowledge without God's making him alive through Christ (Ephesians 2:1-5).

Limited Atonement (Particular Redemption)

Limited Atonement is a doctrine offered in answer to the question, "for whose sins did Christ atone?" The Bible teaches that Christ died for those whom God gave him to save (John 17:9). Christ died, indeed, for many people, but not all (Matthew 26:28). Specifically, Christ died for the invisible Church -- the sum total of all those who would ever rightly bear the name "Christian" (Ephesians 5:25).
This doctrine often finds many objections, mostly from those who think that Limited Atonement does damage to evangelism. We have already seen that Christ will not lose any that the father has given to him (John 6:37). Christ's death was not a death of potential atonement for all people. Believing that Jesus' death was a potential, symbolic atonement for anyone who might possibly, in the future, accept him trivializes Christ's act of atonement. Christ died to atone for specific sins of specific sinners. Christ died to make holy the church. He did not atone for all men, because obviously all men are not saved. Evangelism is actually lifted up in this doctrine, for the evangelist may tell his congregation that Christ died for sinners, and that he will not lose any of those for whom he died!

Irresistible Grace

The result of God's Irresistible Grace is the certain response by the elect to the inward call of the Holy Spirit, when the outward call is given by the evangelist or minister of the Word of God. Christ, himself, teaches that all whom God has elected will come to a knowledge of him (John 6:37). Men come to Christ in salvation when the Father calls them (John 6:44), and the very Spirit of God leads God's beloved to repentance (Romans 8:14). What a comfort it is to know that the gospel of Christ will penetrate our hard, sinful hearts and wondrously save us through the gracious inward call of the Holy Spirit (I Peter 5:10)!

Perseverance of the Saints

Perseverance of the Saints is a doctrine which states that the saints (those whom God has saved) will remain in God's hand until they are glorified and brought to abide with him in heaven. Romans 8:28-39 makes it clear that when a person truly has been regenerated by God, he will remain in God's stead. The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.

Today's Bible believing churches that maintain some form of orthodoxy are either "Reform" or "Arminian" with some Pelagian or Semi-Pelagian doctrines in their mix. Even those members attending Reform congregations can hold to the false doctrines of Arminius and Pelagius. To understand these in full would take many many hours, days, and years of study and I'm only still at the beginning of that journey. There are websites and books available that can get one started on that road. I will provide links at the bottom of this post which I used to provide the information I give in this post.

One that I found very helpful is one that gives an overview of what happened at the Synod of Dort.
The concluding remarks given:


Yes, we should get excited about the Synod of Dort! Because of this Synod, the Reformed Churches received a valuable confession, an authoritative exposition of scriptural Calvinistic theology. In essence, the Arminian Controversy represented an attack upon the sovereignty of God in the matter of man's salvation, and exalted instead the role of man in his own salvation. The Canons of Dort acknowledged, reaffirmed, and glorified God's sovereign grace. If we truly understand what happened so long ago in that old Dutch city of Dort, we will do the same, thankfully acknowledging that it is our faithful Saviour who gathers and defends His church, in spite of all heresies. Then in thankfulness we will also live and abide by those confessions, to the praise of His glory. (emphasis and underscoring mine)

Let us carefully guard our true understanding of our terrible depravity prior to the Sovereign good and perfect will of our God to save us by His power and preordained will to save us who were so depraved in our slavery to sin that He had to heal our blind eyes, convert our stoney heart, open our deaf ears so He could draw us to His marvelous gospel of completely undeserved grace.  

 "I am a ten-thousand-talents debtor to God and have not a penny with which to discharge it, and therefore unless His sovereign grace takes pity upon me and gives me everything for nothing there is no hope whatever for me" - A. W. Pink

 http://spindleworks.com/library/vandergugten/arminian_c.htm
 http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html
 http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

The Gospel

2Th 1:8  In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9  Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power

 This is one of those "trouble passages" for a TULIP Calvinist like me, and one that Arminians love to "use against me". With the word "obey" right there "in my face", how can I say that being saved does not involve something that I do and keep on doing to keep myself there? Hmmm....?

"Obey not THE GOSPEL"....

What is the gospel? What is the "good news" and how do we "obey" it?

From what Jesus has taught me in His word, THE GOSPEL is the good news that He paid the price for my sin, and I am to trust in Him and His finished work. I am supposed to REST IN JESUS, but without His help in this, it is something I cannot do...and I confess that I cannot do it, and REST in the fact that Jesus can, and does, and already did everything to secure that for me, and that is GOOD NEWS (gospel) indeed!

EDITED TO ADD

Gregg at Gospel Driven Disciples has the word GOSPEL for his A to Z challenge word for today. He has some excellent info on that excellent word here