Spotting a Counterfeit Part 2

While going about reading some blogs and all-the-while still thinking on what I posted Saturday, I realize that there is a bit more I want to clarify regarding the previous posting, hence the part 2....and it may go on to part 3 and part 4 because there is so much that is jumbling about in my head that I hope I can convey  it in such a way where I can take it point by point rather than jumping all around it and making it more confusing for everyone, including myself, as I often tend to do.

I'll begin with what happened recently on my Facebook page with an ardent ANTI-Calvinist who was set on converting me to seeing how evil John Calvin was, and how all Calvinists today do not follow Jesus but have John Calvin and their leader and pope. We went round and round, I brought up the scriptures that "prove my point" and as he got uglier and uglier in his accusations against me, someone he doesn't know except for what he sees on Facebook, and against my husband when I would bring up something he has said to me, our conversation never came to our agreeing on anything. I hoped the best for him as I "unfriended" him because I just didn't want to continue such a dialogue, and even to myself my words of "I hope someday you get it, that the Lord will open your eyes" sounded mean and condescending.

Is this Anti-Calvinist misled on the topic of Calvinism? Truly he is, I saw it from everything that he said that he didn't do his own research and has only gathered information from those who are rabidly set against it so much so they have exaggerated and distorted pretty much everything they say about it. Was John Calvin perfect? No. He was a human being and therefore just as prone to error as any of us are. There are things that I have learned about John Calvin that I disagree with him on 100% such as his position that he had on the death penalty. 

John Calvin was a product of his time. In his day it was legal to be sentenced to death for heresy. John Calvin supported that legislation, and had Servetus (a Semi-Pelagian -- he held to several unBiblical heresies that would even today raise the eyebrows of anyone who knows their Bible) captured and it led to Servetus being executed by being burned on the stake. It would be the equivalent of today's Christians who support the death penalty for unrepentant murderers, because in John Calvin's day they viewed the murdering of souls more terrible than the murder of a mortal body. I don't support the death penalty, the Lord will end each life at the time appointed to him or her, so I don't agree with John Calvin on this point and neither do I agree with Christians today who want to see anyone executed for their crimes against humanity.

This futile conversation was just another example to me of the futility of arguing over these things. Neither of us was convincing the other of the truth and superiority of our position, and in fact, only brought a sense of further mistrust and dislike of the opposing position. My husband rightly pointed out that I only wanted to prove I was right, and then proved nothing to those who might have been following that conversation and who knew nothing of "Calvinism" or "Arminianism" or "Semi-Pelagianism", and if anything, might have thought less of Christianity if they were indeed unsaved and looking at us Christians fighting over.....who knows what. He pointed out that we have Catholic and unsaved family members who would give up on listening to anything about Jesus from my husband and I, who would simply look at us with an eye of suspicion, if not confusion. 

My husband's final nail in my coffin was this fact: 

There are probably MANY Arminians that are saved but just are a little confused or misled on the sovereignty of God issues, and my arguing with them won't convince them, only the Lord opening their eyes will convince them....exactly my words to my Arminian antagonist on Facebook that was said by me in condescension, yes of course it is true we know nothing unless the Lord reveals it, but my saying so was wrong. At this time we still see through a glass darkly. None of us have a perfect understanding of how all of this fits together, and the Calvinist issue of who chose whom"chicken or the egg" argument we know that God created both the chicken and the egg, and that is the point the Calvinist will make, yet the argument still is one that the answer can only come from God Himself showing us the answer, so why do I have to "Lord it over" others who do not quite understand it? If the Lord revealed it to me, can He not reveal it to them IN HIS TIME? If He revealed it, why do I act as though it was something I in my wisdom was able to gain and now have to try to pound it into other people who don't "get it"?

So, like I said in part 1, my husband reminded me: "Just point people to Jesus, Susan, He will bring them into all true understanding".

Amen, so true. 

In Part 3 I want to touch on the topic of the Charismatic movement...and that might be divided into a Part 4 as well, we'll see how it goes....

God's Timing, and God's Will Vs. Man's Will

 photo link

A recent discussion in the comments section of a blog post from a few months ago ....
 http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.ca/2015/03/another-post-on-hell.html
 had me marinating over the topic of God's will and man's will...again...I mean it is a topic that I often think about, and it had me go to that place once more.

The Bible likens the believer's relationship to a child and a Father. A child can demand all kinds of things at every whim or fancy, but does that obligate the father to give in to the child at that moment of the request? I think of the people that Jesus healed...some had been waiting for a healing for many years, begging that God would relieve their misery. Why didn't He? When Lazarus, beloved by Jesus, died, Lazarus's sister Mary complained that if Jesus had been a little bit sooner her brother would not have to have died. Why was He late? Or was He?

We have a timetable of when we think things should happen. There are many charlatans who will promise you that God will give you everything you want IMMEDIATELY and if He doesn't, it is because your faith is lacking, so show your faith by sending in all your money to the ministry....blahblahblahblahblah....

When looking for an image for this post, I found the one above, and interestingly, the story of the Doomsday Clock dovetails nicely with my thoughts about God's timing, God's will, and man's (and woman's...that is, mine included) impetuous nature. God answers when He does and the way He chooses to show us that it is His will, not ours, that causes what He does in our lives at the appropriate times, which often is not when we wanted it (immediately, whether it was yesterday, a week ago, or 20 years ago). Joseph had to wait in prison in Egypt MANY YEARS, having been falsely imprisoned for a crime he didn't commit. When he explained a dream to two fellow inmates the one who lived promised to tell Pharaoh about Joseph's plight, but then it wasn't until another 2 years passed before he remembered Joseph when Pharaoh had a dream. How mean of God to keep Joseph in jail all that time for a crime he did not commit!!! How dare He! What an evil God! No, actually, it ended up all being for good (if you know the rest of the story, I know you would agree with me). But God could have done things differently. Why did people have to suffer in order for God's good to have to come so late? Ahh, is it to teach us patience? Perseverance perhaps? Maybe...but it is for God to do what He does for the reasons He knows are the correct ones. We would only be guessing, but a good God who has the welfare of His chosen ever in mind, does what He does for those who love Him.

This is a quote I ran across yesterday, it sort of tells part of this equation:

" Now God sometimes allows people to treat us unjustly. Sometimes He even allows their actions to seriously affect our careers or our futures viewed on a human plane. But God never allows people to make decisions about us that undermine His plan for us. God is for us, we are His children, He delights in us (see Zephaniah 3:17). And the Scripture says, “If God is for us, who can be against us?” (Romans 8:31). We can put this down as a bedrock truth: God will never allow any action against you that is not in accord with His will for you. And His will is always directed to our good. "
Jerry Bridges, Trusting God: Even When Life Hurts

The Bible says the fiery trials purge us and refine us like gold in fire. The book of Job explains it beautifully.  God has made available all these things: warnings, rebukes, admonishings, wisdom, explanations, comforting passages, praises, love, and much more, and we can foolishly find ways to discredit what He says to us, or we can take it to heart and pray for His timing in the performance of His will in our lives. His will is to save the lost. Are you lost?

 Oh, and regarding the Doomsday Clock article...it's an old article...the time has been moved up to 3 minutes to midnite. The closest it has ever been to midnite was when they put the time at 2 minutes to midnite, and then after the cold war it was reset to 17 minutes to midnite....but God knows what time it is by His timetable. The disciples in Jesus day thought that the end of the world would be in their lifetime, and look at the patient endurance of God who is waiting for more people to save. He is patient...but are you patient, to the saving of your soul, with Him?

Can We Lose Our Salvation?

 

 

http://ayay.co.uk/background/art/danish/the-tiger-arrives-at-the-two-martyrs/

Perseverance of the Saints

Perseverance of the Saints is a doctrine which states that the saints (those whom God has saved) will remain in God's hand until they are glorified and brought to abide with him in heaven. Romans 8:28-39 makes it clear that when a person truly has been regenerated by God, he will remain in God's stead. The work of sanctification which God has brought about in his elect will continue until it reaches its fulfillment in eternal life (Phil. 1:6). Christ assures the elect that he will not lose them and that they will be glorified at the "last day" (John 6:39). The Calvinist stands upon the Word of God and trusts in Christ's promise that he will perfectly fulfill the will of the Father in saving all the elect.

 http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html

Many believe you can "lose" or "give back" salvation, a sort of cosmic abortion, if you will. Does that even make sense? If God begins something, He completes it (Phil 1:6) so if you "become" unregenerate, you were never His to begin with. (1 John 2:19)

It is possible to torture the text to make it confess all sorts of things... true, I see it all the time. The ones most guilty of such butchery are the ones who are most convinced that they can lose their salvation and that they chose God in order to be saved. God didn't leave such important work in our own hands to mangle, to  manipulate salvation out of Him, and then later toss aside saying "I can decide to do whatever I want because God gave me that choice". My husband says: "If you have the power to choose to be saved, you also have the power to lose it." (see John 10:29) 


" All the angels, and Adam, received from their Creator holy natures; yet our first father and the fallen angels show that they could totally fall away into sin. No one in himself is absolutely incapable of sinning, except the unchangeable God. Converted men, who still have indwelling sin, must certainly be as capable of falling as Adam, who had none. We believe that the saints will certainly stand, because the God who chose them will certainly hold them up." Link

Do we really believe we are better than Adam and Eve and the holy angels of God to keep our own salvation secure? In the gospel of John chapter 6 we see many who followed after Jesus turn away from Him and follow Him no more (John 6:66) after He told them

 John 6:65  And he said, "This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father." (KJV)

This is one of the most comforting aspects of the fact that it is God who saves us and God who keeps us saved....so why do so many reject Jesus at His word?

 
 John 6:63  It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.
John 6:64a  But there are some of you who do not believe."(KJV)

ohhhh.....yes, I see.

Read the links for more indepth study:

 http://www.reformed.org/calvinism/index.html
 http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/dabney/5points.htm

A couple of posts ago I stated I would talk about our Total depravity (the "T" in TULIP)....I forgot....so I'll go into that next time :)

Does "All" Really Mean All?

 The last two posts I have been touching on the topic of "Calvinism". If you aren't familiar with this subject, or even if you are, it would be good to read the previous posts in order. The first is an introduction, the second explores one of the areas of debate on this topic:

 http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.ca/2015/02/choices-and-faith.html

http://susanflutterbys.blogspot.ca/2015/02/chosen-by-god.html

The L in the Calvinism TULIP stands for Limited Atonement. This blog post will not cover all of the finer points of both sides of this much passionately debated issue, but I give it an overview with links for your further study. On face value, the term Limited Atonement (or also called Particular Atonement) sounds offensive and heretical. 

What! God's sacrifice for our sins is in no way limited!!! 

True...so let us explore what this sound bite is actually talking about.

 Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect. Support for this position is drawn from such scriptures as Matt. 26:28 where Jesus died for ‘many'; John 10:11, 15 which say that Jesus died for the sheep (not the goats, per Matt. 25:32-33); John 17:9 where Jesus in prayer interceded for the ones given Him, not those of the entire world; Acts 20:28 and Eph. 5:25-27 which state that the Church was purchased by Christ, not all people; and Isaiah 53:12 which is a prophecy of Jesus’ crucifixion where he would bore the sins of many (not all). http://www.calvinistcorner.com/tulip.htm

Sufficient for all, but not efficacious for all...in other words the sacrifice itself is sufficient to save every person ever born on this earth, but it does not do so. It is not efficacious, effective, in everyone's lives. On that point everyone that calls themselves Christian will agree. So why is this such a disagreeable assertion for many?...I personally think that people get stuck on the shortened for TULIP's sake title of LIMITED atonement.

Everyone agrees that not everyone  "gets" saved, or all Christians would also be universalists. Something has to happen. Jesus said: "You must be born again" John 3:3

The idea that one can will himself to be born again was discussed in the last post, so this is a continuation on that idea. The fact that the Lords atonement is  not effective for everyone is accepted by most Christians whether they call themselves Calvinists or not. The problem lies in the fact that those who are not Calvinists accuse Calvinists of saying that God forces some to be saved, and forces others to be not saved by the fact that He determined when He made us whether we would be one of His or not. I had one semipelagian call the God of Calvinists a "rapist god", because He forces some to love Him. The problem is we cannot love Him unless He causes us to, changing our hearts and minds and lives in conformity to His will for us...but we tend to think in human terms so such a thing would be a limitation on our freedom and ability when in actuality it is the opposite: God frees us to be able to love Him (remember...the truth sets us free).

But the Bible tells us in John 3:16 that God so loved THE WORLD, and that all who believe on Him will be saved...yes...

Act 13:47  For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, "'I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'"
Act 13:48  And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


Not everyone receives it. Not everyone is *ignited* by the truth of it. Some might be able to fake that for a while and fool a whole bunch of people into thinking they were born of the Spirit...but eventually the truth will bear it out whether they truly were transformed by the choosing of Gods saving Spirit who knows who are His...and who are not chosen.

I have heard many say "But that is not fair!!!!!"

True. Fair would send everyone to hell. Grace saves some that had no desire or ability to be good enough to be eternally with God. We do not want "fair", we desire grace.

Then I have heard from objectors: "When God said ALL He meant ALL...when Jesus said WHOSOEVER He really meant that for ALL"

Here is a link to a short article that goes into this a little further:
http://www.calvinistcorner.com/john316-anyone-can-believe.htm

If that makes you uncomfortable, take it to Jesus, confess your need for His Spirit to transform you by His power. He is not obligated to give you what you ask, but He does keep His promises, and one of His promises to us is that He gives liberally to all who ask of Him (James 1:5). However He does it in a way that we know and ultimately acknowledge the fact that it is His choice, not ours, that saves us out of the destiny we all would have been headed for, hell, which we all deserve (whether we want to think so or not, the truth is we all deserve hell)...and that it is GRACE that keeps some of us from going to what we all deserve.

Next time: Perseverance of the Saints

Chosen by God

Yesterday's post about the reformation and what we now call Calvinism barely scratched at the surface of the issues regarding how we regard God's sovereign rule over us. Before reading this offering please read the previous post, and links provided would also be a good read in preparing to approach the topics that I hope to touch on.

In debating with "anti-Calvinists" three things that irritate them the most come up, and I'll try to talk a little about them in separate posts. The three things are:

1. God not giving us the choice of being saved or not

2. Universal atonement vs. limited atonement

3. Perseverance of the saints (or what it has degraded into with "OSAS")

We'll start with #1.
Did God leave the saving power on our side? To choose or not to choose, that is the question....

I recently had a discussion over this with a couple of men who vehemently oppose Calvinism and promote the idea that John Calvin is a "pope of the Calvinists". One man boasts that he is very knowledgeable on the topic of evil Calvinism, stating that he has researched this for 40 years, yet in my discussions with him he acknowledged that he has never read anything written by John Calvin, or even Charles Spurgeon, stating that he doesn't want to poison his brain with such things. He said some other quite remarkable things that left me wondering why anyone was still giving his comments "likes" and calling me some kind of heretic for trying to tell others to go to the sources to read these things for themselves. I was going to share some of these characters' comments which reveal just how little they understand about this subject, but the one with the most ridiculous comments has deleted them all. Therefore we will look at what Mr. P has to say regarding unconditional election:

 First I'll start with a very brief overview of how God saved me in answer to his question:

Mr. P: "Susan did God force you to love him Or did you see God and run to him and love him because he first loved you"

Me:  "I was brought up "religious" in SDA, reading the Bible, asking and not receiving, yet God did it later after I went through all kinds of paganism and witchcraft, and He got me while I was on drugs and not able to help myself. That is grace"

Mr. P:  "I was brought up in catholics then I read the bible and saw the truth and make the free will choice to love my God who saved me"

 Me: "Believe whatever you want to Mr. P, I'll take God at His word in what He says in His word to me. He chose me and I take full comfort in it, you can thank yourself for choosing Him, I'll thank God for choosing me."

then he says

Mr. P: "Your God a raper and Calvinism just as bad as all the other false stuff you were in.. Susan get save ask Jesus to forgvie (sic) your sins he will .He ask you he does not force you to love him .He not a rapist .God seek ALL to be saved . Love does not force itself bible says plainly"

hmmm, alrightythen...yeah, I can see where Mr. P found THAT in scripture.

Me: "You choose to see a Sovereign God as a rapist because you still judge with the "eyes of the flesh", if you don't see it I cannot force you to understand things of the Spirit because you still judge by your lusts of your flesh. Take care, I'm done"

Mr. P:  "Susan did God force souls to go to hell . .God cannot judge someone he force to sin and force to reject him"

Me:  "the fall of man in the garden of Eden caused all to be destined for hell, but grace of God allows some to not receive justice instead receive mercy, gift, not earned through choosing, God chooses some, His word is everywhere but not all choose because most have not been given that ability, even many who hear the word preached cannot hear because the gift of hearing is not given, those who repent are given sight to see the truth about their utter depravity and are given the gift of repentance. We have nothing that hadn't been given to us by God."

The difference, bottom line, is that Mr. P thinks the person being saved is the primary object of importance, when in fact the Bible reveals that everything that happens is not for man's sake but to reveal the truth and mercy of God. The problem with most "Christians" today is they do not admit or understand what complete and utter depravity is. They believe there is still a little bit of their own innate goodness that gives them the freedom to choose God. The Bible reveals that we all are utterly hopeless and slaves to sin, worse than that, we are "dead in our trespasses" (Ephesians 2:1; Colossians 2:13) which is....well, dead is dead. Dead people don't make choices any more than Lazarus "chose" to come forth when Jesus called to the dead man Lazarus and said "Lazarus! Come forth!" (John 11:32-43)

So in the next episode I will explore the utter depravity of our natural condition prior to the saving power of God who transformed us by the power of His will.

New Years Resolutions

I (like most people) have high hopes at this time of year for a good year ahead, but I'm not one to make new years resolutions. It isn't that I don't think I need to make any, it's just that I'm not that creative in that way...I've tried to think of things that I would like to work on and cannot come up with anything that I think I can stick with, so I have that "why bother" Eeyore kind of resignation to the situation. Instead

Looking back on 2011 and Forward to 2012

 image source 

(also has great chemtrail info)

This has been an interesting year...

The world population (according to U.N. calculations) reached 7 billion on October 31, 2011. Read National Geographic News for their comments about this.

Look Up Fellowship does a good job in mentioning some of the highlights of 2011, as well as some speculative projections for 2012... and it is an election year, many believe we are in for four more years of Obamamania.

I know that whatever has happened and whatever will happen is in the Creator of the universe's hands, and He promised us Romans 8:28

And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to [his] purpose.

Happy New Year, may it be a blessing for you and your family and those closest to you as you draw near to the Lord in 2012.

1Peter 4:7  But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

image link

this link is another great source of info about chemtrails

We Need to Heed the Signs

 The very specific sign in The Lesson of the Sycamore Tree:

Quotes from the clip: "they did it exactly according to the pattern of judgment" and "...the leaders did not realize what they were saying..." and "...he (John Edwards) used the same scripture without realizing he was pronouncing judgment on America"

God provides His people with a warning before He does what He does. We cannot avert God's judgment, but we can prepare for it spiritually by remaining alert and by being in prayer for each other and by trying to warn others. Some might think this is inconsistent with God's sovereignty ("why do anything? God is in charge, He will do everything!"). It is true, God is in charge, and He also charged us with a commission to warn others and to watch the signs. This is not inconsistent with His sovereign will. He has made it work hand in hand with His sovereign will, the plan that cannot be altered, and the plan that He has chosen to allow us to participate in.

http://911sycamore.com/Message.htm

Excerpt:


This bronze image of the fallen uprooted Sycamore is to be displayed on Wall Street which symbolizes America's financial prosperity. Bronze or brass is a metal "used as a type of severe judgment" (Wilson, Walter L. Dictionary of Bible Types. Hendrickson Publishers, Inc. 1999. p. 56). It is for this reason the Lord Jesus is pictured figuratively in the Book of Revelation with "his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters" (1:15).

http://911sycamore.com/Message.htm

Excerpt:

Just as recorded in Isaiah with Israel, America replaced this Sycamore tree with a 21-foot Norway Spruce called the Tree of Hope was planted in the Northwest corner of the churchyard at St. Paul's Chapel on November 22, 2003, replacing the fallen Sycamore tree. The tree was donated by the Imperatore Nurseries and lifted into place by crane. On November 29, St. Paul's hosted a prayer service and ceremonial lighting of the Tree of Hope. (Torres, Maria Luisa. "Ground Zero's Tree of Hope." See also pictures: http://www.trinitywallstreet.org/search/1f51b277dd7b44f9f10b1a54dfff149a). 


God is long suffering, and is slow to anger. He knows what He is doing and will do it. In His mercy He has made a way for those He has chosen, and will bring us unto Himself. Let us not be idle, but let us be diligent to warn others, and to watch and pray.

(sorry, I couldn't get those excerpts to come out the right size for some reason...my choice was going with too large or too small...I figured too large was better for those of us who are starting to become "vision impaired")

Found another link to a fallen tree that fell on 06-09-09 (interesting date, dontcha think?) The tree was a 140 year old tree that is pictured on the back of the $20 bill! It grew on the grounds of the White House:

Check out the link here

The signs are all around for those with eyes to see.

Is Jesus "Good"?

Luk 18:18  And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luk 18:19  And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
Luk 18:20  Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor thy father and thy mother.
Luk 18:21  And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
Luk 18:22  Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23  And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
Luk 18:24  And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Luk 18:25  For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:26  And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
Luk 18:27  And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.



***************************************


I have seen that verse taken by Jehovah's Witnesses, and others, to be Jesus's own confession that He is not God....but is that really what is going on here? Is Jesus telling this young man that He is not God and therefore not "good"? Does He ever say "I am not God therefore I am not "good" "anywhere in the Bible?  If you can find that please let me know...

I was thinking about this last night as I drove up late and tired from work. I was thinking about the fact that I TRY to be "good", whereas Jesus JUST IS "good" (no trying, just is). And for that simple fact, I am grateful.